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91
I like that one....H20.

And shut yo' mouth, boy!  I looooooove Canadian Bacon...actually any bacon.  lol

smiley  ;D
92
Forgive me if I'm being dense, but are you saying that you believe that no Gentile will have the opportunity or the inclination to accept Christ and receive Salvation after the rapture?  I have heard some preachers say that The Holy Spirit will be taken from the world after the rapture.  Since it's The Holy Spirit that draws us to God, I've always wondered how that (Salvation) was going to work/come about.  Of course, Mr. LaHaye and Mr. Jenkins, authors of The Left Behind Series, put forth that there will be those who will realize The Truth and accept Salvation after the rapture.  What's your take?

smiley  ;D
93
I understand the question you're asking now....but that's still a tough question, Bro.  I'm still gnawin' on this one and plan on asking a few people what they might think.

I love it when you make me think!
Smiley  :D
94
For Discussion On Christian Matters *CLICK HERE* / Re: What Is a Woman's Role?
« Last post by smiley4jc on March 11, 2009, 06:20:25 AM »
'Alrighty Bro...I'll start with scripture and then give you my personal opinion...........

1  I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

anthro?pos
anth'-ro-pos
From G435 and ???? o?ps (the countenance; from G3700); manfaced, that is, a human being: - certain, man.

8  I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

ane?r
an'-ayr
A primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male): - fellow, husband, man, sir.

9  In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

gune?
goo-nay'
Probably from the base of G1096; a woman; specifically a wife: - wife, woman.

"Now, here is part of the very next chapter of the same book. Note who is to be a deacon or bishop."

1 Tim 3:1
 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

ei tisi tis
From G1487 and G5100; if any: - he that, if a (-ny) man (?s thing, from any, ought), whether any, whosoever.  (underline mine)
    G5100 - tis
         tis
An enclitic indefinite pronoun; some or any person or object: - a (kind of), any (man, thing, thing at all), certain (thing), divers, he (every) man, one (X thing), ought, + partly, some (man, -body, -thing, -what), (+ that no-) thing, what (-soever), X wherewith, whom [-soever], whose ([-soever]).

episkope?ep-is-kop-ay'
From G1980; inspection (for relief); by implication superintendence; specifically the Christian ?episcopate?: - the office of a ?bishop?, bishoprick, visitation.
    G1980 - episkeptomai
         ep-ee-skep'-tom-ahee;
Middle voice from G1909 and the base of G4649; to inspect, that is, (by implication) to select; by extension to go to see, relieve: - look out, visit.
5  (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

tistis
An enclitic indefinite pronoun; some or any person or object: - a (kind of), any (man, thing, thing at all), certain (thing), divers, he (every) man, one (X thing), ought, + partly, some (man, -body, -thing, -what), (+ that no-) thing, what (-soever), X wherewith, whom [-soever], whose ([-soever]).

7  Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

autos
ow-tos'
From the particle a??? au (perhaps akin to the base of G109 through the idea of a baffling wind; backward); the reflexive pronoun self, used (alone or in the compound of G1438) of the third person, and (with the proper personal pronoun) of the other persons: - her, it (-self), one, the other, (mine) own, said, ([self-], the) same, ([him-, my-, thy-]) self, [your-] selves, she, that, their (-s), them ([-selves]), there [-at, -by, -in, -into, -of, -on, -with], they, (these) things, this (man), those, together, very, which. Compare G848.

8  Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

diakonosdee-ak'-on-os
Probably from d?a??? diako? (obsolete, to run on errands; compare G1377); an attendant, that is, (generally) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties); specifically a Christian teacher and pastor (technically a deacon or deaconess): - deacon, minister, servant.  (my emphasis on deaconess)

4  Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

katakat-ah'
A primary particle; (preposition) down (in place or time), in varied relations (according to the case [genitive, dative or accusative] with which it is joined): - about, according as (to), after, against, (when they were) X alone, among, and, X apart, (even, like) as (concerning, pertaining to, touching), X aside, at, before, beyond, by, to the charge of, [charita-] bly, concerning, + covered, [dai-] ly, down, every, (+ far more) exceeding, X more excellent, for, from . . . to, godly, in (-asmuch, divers, every, -to, respect of), . . . by, after the manner of, + by any means, beyond (out of) measure, X mightily, more, X natural, of (up-) on (X part), out (of every), over against, (+ your) X own, + particularly, so, through (-oughout, -oughout every), thus, (un-) to (-gether, -ward), X uttermost, where (-by), with. In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution or intensity.

MSG translation:  4  Any man who speaks with God or about God in a way that shows a lack of respect for the authority of Christ, dishonors Christ.

5  But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

akatakaluptosak-at-ak-al'-oop-tos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and a derivative of a compound of G2596 and G2572; unveiled: - uncovered.
    G1 -  A
        al'-fah
Of Hebrew origin; the first letter of the alphabet: figuratively only (from its use as a numeral) the first. Often used (usually ?an?, before a vowel) also in composition (as a contraction from G427) in the sense of privation; so in many words beginning with this letter; occasionally in the sense of union (as a contraction of G260): - Alpha.  (underline mine)
    G2596 - kata
          kat-ah'
A primary particle; (preposition) down (in place or time), in varied relations (according to the case [genitive, dative or accusative] with which it is joined): - about, according as (to), after, against, (when they were) X alone, among, and, X apart, (even, like) as (concerning, pertaining to, touching), X aside, at, before, beyond, by, to the charge of, [charita-] bly, concerning, + covered, [dai-] ly, down, every, (+ far more) exceeding, X more excellent, for, from . . . to, godly, in (-asmuch, divers, every, -to, respect of), . . . by, after the manner of, + by any means, beyond (out of) measure, X mightily, more, X natural, of (up-) on (X part), out (of every), over against, (+ your) X own, + particularly, so, through (-oughout, -oughout every), thus, (un-) to (-gether, -ward), X uttermost, where (-by), with. In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution or intensity.

    G2572 - kalupto?
         kal-oop'-to
Akin to G2813 and G2928; to cover up (literally or figuratively): - cover, hide.

   MSG translation - 5  In the same way, a wife who speaks with God in a way that shows a lack of respect for the authority of her husband, dishonors her husband.

Okie dokie..........now for my personal opinion:
I have never studied this subject quite this closely, to tell you the truth.  I was taught by my mother that my daddy was the head of our house/family.  My mom always did and still does submit to my dad.  But...my dad sees my mom as an intelligent human being and pretty much lets her do as she wishes because he trusts her heart and her mind being ruled by the same Christ that he serves.  In my own marriage, I submit myself to my husband, who is honest and knowledgeable enough to know he is not a Christian and Christ is NOT his head.  I serve my husband as I believe God wants me to serve a husband...saved or not.  In the past 20 years I can only presently recall a couple of decisions my husband was about to make which I felt went against God's law.  At which time I lovingly pointed out his error.  One of those times, he submitted to my "opinion", which was based on scripture, with no anger or resentment.  The other time he wasn't so sure about it but did not carry out his plan of action, since he knew deep down his plan was wrong.  My husband also pretty much leaves me to my own decision making because, as he has told me, he trusts that I serve God to the best of my ability.  I know my husband is the head of this home.  He knows that I know he's the head of our home.  Not a problem.

As far as women preaching is concerned, I take female preachers the same way I do male preachers.  I listen to the message to see if it lines up with The Word of God.  I must be totally honest here, though, and admit to an initial distrust of women preachers.  In fact, there are very few female preachers or high profile teachers that I get a good feeling about.  I think that might just be a personal and female thing, though.  I KNOW how women can be.  As I posted in the "Do Men Really Face More Temptation" thread, women can be vicious.  We just do it quietly and behind the back, under the table.  We have a couple who often comes to our church to fill in for Pastor or just to preach to us.  Bro."J" is a most awesome and talented teacher/preacher/evangelist and I have learned so very much from him.  Occasionally, his wife, Sis "P", will get up to share something, too.  I love this woman and over the past 5 or so years I have come to trust her totally, that what she says is prompted and inspired and taught to her by The Holy Spirit.  She is quiet, unassuming and totally supportive of her husband.

The conclusion I find myself coming to through this brief study of the scriptures this morning is that through our union with our husbands and our own personal salvation, Christ is also a woman's head.  I do not think that it is wrong for women to preach, teach, or have a position that seems to be over the men in the congregation.  As long as Christ is her head and she is doing the work and will of The Father, as opposed to be only set on "ruling" over men, then I see no reason a woman cannot preach.  In the Greek definitions of the words highlighted above, I surmise that anyone can aspire to the office of "bishop" (whosoever will).  I do think it is highly important to make sure this is a God-calling and not of a person's own lust for power.  But that would hold for men as well as women.

One little side note to all this:  In 1 Tim. 3:4 it states that the bishop should make sure he can rule his own household.  If Mr. Van Natten is going to go by the "letter of the law" then I think a long hard look should be taken at some of the "PK's" (Preacher's Kids) in the church.  I hate generalizations, but every PK I've ever known was pretty rough, wild, spoiled, bratty or just plain weird.  You don't even want to know the things I was taught by a preacher's daughter when I was very young.   :o  So, Mr. Van Natten, if you're going to throw a stone at women preachers you might want to pocket a few extra for those preachers with them wild kids.

How'd I do, Brother?   ;)

smiley  ;D
95
For Discussion On Christian Matters *CLICK HERE* / What Is a Woman's Role?
« Last post by hymnsinger on March 10, 2009, 09:30:33 PM »
OK, this is either a can of worms or a dead horse.

Quote from the"Do Men Really Face More Temptation" thread.
"Also, you show me a whiney man and I'll show you a man whose wife won't or his mom didn't let him be The Man."

In this day when women read and quote scripture as GOSPEL, they continue to interpret it differently then men.

I Googled women's role in church and below is an excerpt from Steve Van Nattan's - Lady Preachers.

Not my words or thoughts but an extreme male outlook.
I purposely used this one because it was extreme. There is another one on the feminizing of today's church.

EXCERPT
1 Timothy 2:
1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men,
2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
7 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle; I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying; a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
8 I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting;
9 in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing,
10 but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works.
11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.
12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

Now, here is part of the very next chapter of the same book. Note who is to be a deacon or bishop.
No possible room is allowed for a Christian lady to be a church leader. Paul was walking close enough to the Holy Spirit that God would have given Paul the whole load. To say that women were insinuated into the next text is mental gymnastics of devils.

1 Timothy 3:
1 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;
3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;
4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?);

There is NO discussion of a woman qualifying to rule either her home or the church.

6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money,
9 holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience.
10 But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless.
11 Likewise their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.
12 Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Here is the last text which eliminates ALL women from taking any office or place in life in which they have ANY authority over men.

Genesis 3:
16 To the woman He said: "I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.

Hebrews 13:
17 Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.

A man in the Lord's Church has NO option but to obey a woman who is in authority over him. If he thinks this text, and the others here, prevent the woman from ruling over him, he should GET OUT of that local church at once.. which he will do if he is more than a wimpy little grease spot in the ecclesiastical carpet.

Paul's first letter to the Corinthians says in chapter 11 that:
9 Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man.
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man.
3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved.

And, who is her head?
Answer: Her husband.
So, how can a lady preacher or bishop pray in submission to her husband when the wimp is sitting in the congregation submitting to her?

END OF EXCERPT

I am interested in your views.

In His service
>< ))/*>
96
No, I am talking about being at an anti-abortion rally or just debating the pros and cons of abortion and someone sticks a mike in your face while on camera and asks"if a woman has an abortion and it is illegal, what should her punishment be?"

Say if you are talking over the backyard fence and the subject comes up and you are asked if abortion should be legal or not.

If your response is that abortions should be illegal (and it should be) because you are terminating a life preordained by God.

They then ask you what should the punishment be. How would you answer that question?

If it is illegal, is it then murder? If so what should the punishment be? Who should be punished both the would-be-mother, or the abortionist, or both?

Here in Canada we awarded the "Order of Canada" medal to Dr. Henry Morgenthaler, an abortionist.

It is just a question asked [a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk6t_tdOkwo"] HERE on YouTube[/a] and I think it is a legitimate question that we really should be prepared for.

In His service
>< ))/*>
97
I tell them that if they are Jewish, then that is OK. But, I believe that the age of the Gentiles started at Pentecost and ends at the rapture.

The tribulation is the seventieth week of years of Daniels prophecy and is for the Jews to do 7 things. "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy." (Dan 9:24 NKJV)
The final one is to accept Jesus as the Messiah.

These "weeks," however, are not seven-day weeks, but each"week" represents seven years. Thus, 70 weeks of years equals 490 years. We are now in the parenthetical period where the 69th year stopped at the cross (Dan 9:26) and will start again after the rapture.

I believe the fate of Gentiles that refuse Christ is "and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thess 2:10-12).
And during the tribulation they will vehemently deny Christ because of this strong delusion, even to the point where "...they gnawed their tongues because of the pain. They blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and did not repent of their deeds." (Rev 16:10, 11.)

In His service
>< ))/*>
98
It is a hard thing to see and explain and whatever works is OK I guess.

The most popular one I hear is water. It is H2O no matter what state it is in. (and I don';t mean, like, Texas)
In liquid, gas (vapor) or solid when tested it is H2O.
Whereas I hear that other elements actually take on a different molecular structure when they change state.
Oh, that will be over easy, hold the shell and throw in some Canadian bacon and hash browns.

In His service
>< ))/*>
99
Very interesting. I never thought of our Father calling us home as answered prayer.
You may have something there, because when the Lord was finished with the disciples, He called them home.
Even the old testament prophets were allowed to die an excruciating death as they passed from this life. (Heb 11:32-39),(Psalm 116:15).
All will be rewarded for what they/we endure here in this life.
Thanks for opening my eyes.

As for knowing what God's will is?  Read the Bible it is God's Word instructing us in His will. I think I covered most of those points.

As for praying to Jesus? You are right! The Bible tells us to pray to the Father in the name of Jesus, our Advocate (Intercessor).

Yes the proper prayer format is
A - adoration, acknowledge who He is.
C - confess your sins and ask for forgiveness
T - thank Him
S - supplication, now we can approach Him with our needs, not greeds. (1 Tim 2:1)

In His Service
>< ))/*>
100
I somewhat agree with Mr. Morely but not totally.  For one thing, in this day of "women's liberation", we women are quite free to participate in whatever behavior we deem necessary or desirable.  Young, teen girls who used to sleep around were considered sluts and other non-desirable names.  Today...it's accepted that "kids will be kids"  "It's a phase....", "they're just sowing their wild oats", etc.  Having gotten one girl through the teen years and one boy going through them now, I can tell you that in my case, it's the girls who are confronting my son with more temptation than the guys ever provided my daughter.  The girls ain't running!  At least not away from temption.  They are throwing open the doors, puttin' out the welcome mat, settin' the table and puttin' their best hoochie momma threads on!  And this behavior starts early, too!  Shockingly so.  Unfortunately, this behavior is not exclusive to the young girls....I know some 50 + year old women who are putting out those same welcome mats.

*emotional neglect - if women would allow men to be men, then maybe they would get the emotional support they are needing.  Does my husband, who honestly confesses he is not a Christian, give me all the emotional support I feel I need?  No...but that's the way he was raised...it's from his dad.  Has my husband gotten better over the past 20 years?  Most definitely.  But, no matter what my husband believes or doesn't believe, I understand that he's the head of this household and all final decisions are up to him.  The more support I give him as the head of our household, the more support I get in return.  I believe women these days emotionally castrate their men, wanting them to be more touchy, feely and push down their "manly" ways.

*false gods - Sorry...I don't see men having a corner on this one.

*Money and debt - I have to strongly disagree here.  There is a woman I go to church with who is very "spiritual".  I love this woman like a sister but....   In a recent discussion we were having about my daughter's "lovelife" I commented that someone in my family was praying for a man to come into my daughter's life who has a very good paying job, lots of money in the bank and can give my daughter all the "stuff" she deserves.  I have been praying that God would send my daughter a Christian, God-fearing, Bible grounded, Spirit-filled man....then everything else will fall into place.  This Sister in Christ then informed me that the very first thing she looks for in a man (and she is single...at the moment...multiple marriages) is a large bank account.  I have a sister-in-law, again, whom I love dearly, who trades her "wifely favors" for cash and she is known to spend voraciously, constantly to the point of on several occasions sinking their family into much debt.  Her daughter is turning out the same.  I believe that women are more obsessed with money than men.

*whining - you've got to be kidding me!  Women wrote the book on whining.  Men make excuses and carry on as if they are gospel.  Whining, game-playing, manipulation....whatever it takes to get your way.  It's a woman thing!  Also, you show me a whiney man and I'll show you a man whose wife won't or his mom didn't let him be The Man.

*pride - Mr. Morely obviously has never been a fly on the wall when the women are in the "powder room"." "Did you see Jane?" Can you believe she would actually come out in public with that hair?"" (implication:  my hair is soooo much better)  "And that dress!  The poor dear is so stuck in the 70's."  (translation:  I have such good fashion sense)  Us women might express our "pride" a bit differently but it's no less volatile or poison.  In fact, I think since most women are a little more subtle and underhanded with it, we can be even more damaging.  Would you rather get the snot beat out of you to prove who is the best man or would you rather have your reputation totally trashed?   ::)

I do not think that men face more temptations.  It just comes in different flavors and we handle it differently.

smiley ;D
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